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Fun day to help find missing Madeleine
11:11am Tuesday 29th May 2007
Comments (74)
By Staff Reporter »
A FUN day was held in Bolton yesterday to raise money to help find missing Madeleine McCann.
Lofty the Lion joined in the fun at the football match, and there was also rounders games and various other activities.
About 100 people turned up for the event at Hulton Lane playing fields in Deane, despite the rain.
The event was organised by Clifford Greenhalgh, a Hulton Lane resident, and his friend Olwyn Fay, who wanted to encourage people in Bolton to do their bit to try and find four-year-old Maddy.
He said: "We have seen her on the TV and she looked such a pleasant girl and we hope they find her.
"I talked to my family about doing something and they were inspirational, especially my children Craig, aged 16 and Amy, aged 13. They went round with buckets collecting on the day too.
"It was a shame that the weather was so bad, but everyone was generous and we raised more than £600."
All the money raised will go to the Madeleine's Fund: Leaving No Stone Unturned appeal.
Your Say Yourtheboltonnews
emily strange, bolton says...
11:56am Tue 29 May 07
Yes well done girls and i agree with tuby,s comments,but lets not lose the fact that if they had not left the children on their own this may not have happened.
Boltonian, bolton says...
12:03pm Tue 29 May 07
A great idea for fundraising, but you would be better giving the money to other genuine charities that really need the money.
As we are seeing, the "fund" is paying for overseas trips that are planned and presumably for families and friends to stay in Portugal.
If it was another family, who would be paying their legal fees - not the public.
How can they justify a trip to Italy and other countries, but not return home.
They have lost one child, yet happy to leave the other two with whoever while they jet around the world!
If they were my children, I wouldnt let the other two out of my site.
Priorities should be the twins, not world trips
As we are seeing, the "fund" is paying for overseas trips that are planned and presumably for families and friends to stay in Portugal.
If it was another family, who would be paying their legal fees - not the public.
How can they justify a trip to Italy and other countries, but not return home.
They have lost one child, yet happy to leave the other two with whoever while they jet around the world!
If they were my children, I wouldnt let the other two out of my site.
Priorities should be the twins, not world trips
Sun Tzu, says...
12:34pm Tue 29 May 07
I think it's unfair and cruel to critisize the Mcanns. This could have happened to anyone, and only those who have been unfortunate enough to have had to live through such a nightmare, are really qualified to pass judgement on the way they have conducted themselves
We can't influence what happens in other lands, but what we can do is put measure in place to lessen the chances of this happening in our own country. Hanging child murderers WOULD act as a deterent to others. People like Ian Huntley could repay their debt to society and serve a useful purpose by being hung and made example of.
We can't influence what happens in other lands, but what we can do is put measure in place to lessen the chances of this happening in our own country. Hanging child murderers WOULD act as a deterent to others. People like Ian Huntley could repay their debt to society and serve a useful purpose by being hung and made example of.
James, Westhoughton says...
12:34pm Tue 29 May 07
My heart cries for Madeleine, but the parents - well how irresponsible to leave their children unattended whilst having a meal. Well done for checking up every 30 minutes - it can only take seconds for a tragedy to happen. In the event she is found, they should be on child neglect charges. You would think intelligent Doctors would know better and what is the point of a family holiday if you leave your kids alone? They're a disgrace IMHO.
Well done to the fund raising by local residents. Not a cause I am prepared to put money in to myself, but a good reflection on the kind nature of people in this town.
Let's not forget about the 1000's of other missing children. Shame their cause isnt so publicised.
Well done to the fund raising by local residents. Not a cause I am prepared to put money in to myself, but a good reflection on the kind nature of people in this town.
Let's not forget about the 1000's of other missing children. Shame their cause isnt so publicised.
James, Westhoughton says...
12:46pm Tue 29 May 07
Sun Tzu wrote:It happened to them because they were selfish and irresponsible and left their children alone whilst they were enjoying the local a la carte
I think it's unfair and cruel to critisize the Mcanns. This could have happened to anyone, and only those who have been unfortunate enough to have had to live through such a nightmare, are really qualified to pass judgement on the way they have conducted themselves We can't influence what happens in other lands, but what we can do is put measure in place to lessen the chances of this happening in our own country. Hanging child murderers WOULD act as a deterent to others. People like Ian Huntley could repay their debt to society and serve a useful purpose by being hung and made example of.
Alan, says...
12:53pm Tue 29 May 07
Sorry to **** on the party but how many other neglected, abducted, murdered kids get this coverage ?
But yeah by all means jump on the band wagon you misguided types but don't expect Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the Pope to be on the case if your Child goes missing. I see an OBE on the horizon for this pair of bad parents.
Enough's Enough Its the Police's job to investigate disappearances and the bandwagon jumping do-gooders are going to make no difference at all.
Get real.
But yeah by all means jump on the band wagon you misguided types but don't expect Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the Pope to be on the case if your Child goes missing. I see an OBE on the horizon for this pair of bad parents.
Enough's Enough Its the Police's job to investigate disappearances and the bandwagon jumping do-gooders are going to make no difference at all.
Get real.
Alan, says...
12:56pm Tue 29 May 07
Quote
The event was organised by Clifford Greenhalgh, a Hulton Lane resident, and his friend Olwyn Fay, who wanted to encourage people in Bolton to do their bit to try and find four-year-old Maddy.
PS I would be very
surprised she is in Bolton anyway, so relax, but hey enjoy your self publicity.
emilystrange, bolton says...
12:58pm Tue 29 May 07
sun tzu this cannot happen to any one only to those who decide that having a good time is more important than their children.
Sun Tzu, says...
1:22pm Tue 29 May 07
It could happen to anyone. You can't be at your child's side 24/7. Do you not recal the Newcastle child abducted from her bath, in her own home, whilst the mother was in the house?
It is not the parents who are at fault here. It is the evil monsters who serve no useful purpose in our society. Hang them and make an example to other like minded fiends.
It is not the parents who are at fault here. It is the evil monsters who serve no useful purpose in our society. Hang them and make an example to other like minded fiends.
James, Westhoughton says...
1:31pm Tue 29 May 07
Sun Tzu wrote:Would you leave your car keys in the ignition unattended?
It could happen to anyone. You can't be at your child's side 24/7. Do you not recal the Newcastle child abducted from her bath, in her own home, whilst the mother was in the house? It is not the parents who are at fault here. It is the evil monsters who serve no useful purpose in our society. Hang them and make an example to other like minded fiends.
Would you leave your purse with all your credit cards in unattended?
Would you walk out of your front house and leave the door wide open?
The answer is NO - so why leave your child unattended?
Considering they had IVF treatement, you would suspect their children were a pit more precious than a meal.
As for your other points - if you are in the house, you should lock doors, that's just common sense.
As far as I am concerned, the parents of Madeliene are just as guilty as the person(s) behind this crime.
So for you to say the parents are not at fault, is somewhat moronic.
Sun Tzu, says...
1:40pm Tue 29 May 07
James
If you do think Madeleines parents are just as guilty as the abductors, then I pity you, and all the people that are ever unfortunate enough to come into contact with.
If you do think Madeleines parents are just as guilty as the abductors, then I pity you, and all the people that are ever unfortunate enough to come into contact with.
James, Westhoughton says...
1:46pm Tue 29 May 07
Sun Tzu wrote:Well Sun Tzu, where do YOU draw the line between abduction and child neglect in duty of care?
James If you do think Madeleines parents are just as guilty as the abductors, then I pity you, and all the people that are ever unfortunate enough to come into contact with.
emilystrange, bolton says...
1:50pm Tue 29 May 07
well i,m in total agreement with you james so pity the people who know us then . The case of the child in newcastle has nothing whatsoever to do with madeline case.
Andy Jones, Bolton says...
2:11pm Tue 29 May 07
What happened to Madeline was *not* due to neglect. It's not like she hurt herself, she was abducted. This might still have happened if she was 16. This is 100% the fault of the abductor just as getting your TV stolen is 100% the fault of the burglar - regardless of steps you could have taken to be with your TV 24/7.
emilystrange, bolton says...
2:25pm Tue 29 May 07
how can you liken a television to a child infact 3 children left unattened to , are you saying that this is ok,i must try it some time maybe i will get to travel the world and meet the pope
Chris, Bolton says...
2:35pm Tue 29 May 07
Of course it was the parents' fault!
Had they been in the room with their kids, this wouldn't have happened.
How long will it be before they write a book about the experience and make a mint?
And comparing the incident with having a TV nicked is an irrelevance.
Had they been in the room with their kids, this wouldn't have happened.
How long will it be before they write a book about the experience and make a mint?
And comparing the incident with having a TV nicked is an irrelevance.
Sun Tzu, says...
2:54pm Tue 29 May 07
The people on here, trying to aportion blame to the Mcanns and so away from perverts and paedophiles, make me feel sick to my stomach.
The Mcanns made a mistake, they wern't purposly neglecting their children, and whatever any self rightous idoits says here, it will never be as bad as the torment they will feel for the rest of their days.
People make mistakes, sometimes mistakes which turn out very bad. No one goes through life without making mistakes.
It's the sick **** in our society that are purposely doing bad things that are screwing everything up, not ordinary folk like the Mcanns.
The Mcanns made a mistake, they wern't purposly neglecting their children, and whatever any self rightous idoits says here, it will never be as bad as the torment they will feel for the rest of their days.
People make mistakes, sometimes mistakes which turn out very bad. No one goes through life without making mistakes.
It's the sick **** in our society that are purposely doing bad things that are screwing everything up, not ordinary folk like the Mcanns.
emma, bolton says...
3:01pm Tue 29 May 07
i agree with it being the parents fault, they were responsible for the children and they left them,but theyl know that themselves and have to live with that for the rest of their lives.
also, i wonder how the press would of treated the mccanns if theyd of been unemployed and lived on a council estate? those other 2 kids would of been on the social services list by now im sure, neglect is the word that springs to mind.
also, i wonder how the press would of treated the mccanns if theyd of been unemployed and lived on a council estate? those other 2 kids would of been on the social services list by now im sure, neglect is the word that springs to mind.
Chris, Bolton says...
3:06pm Tue 29 May 07
Sun Tzu.
a) Why does having an opinion that differs to yours make us 'idiots'?
b) The McCanns SHOULD feel tormented about leaving their THREE children alone. They didn't accidentally leave them on their own while they swanned off for a slap-up meal! They knew exactly what they were doing, and are fortunate that only one child was taken.
c) Do you excuse, for example, someone making the mistake of driving their car after a few drinks and 'mistakenly' killing someone else? Your simplistic logic would lead me to presume so.
d) Erm, that's all.
a) Why does having an opinion that differs to yours make us 'idiots'?
b) The McCanns SHOULD feel tormented about leaving their THREE children alone. They didn't accidentally leave them on their own while they swanned off for a slap-up meal! They knew exactly what they were doing, and are fortunate that only one child was taken.
c) Do you excuse, for example, someone making the mistake of driving their car after a few drinks and 'mistakenly' killing someone else? Your simplistic logic would lead me to presume so.
d) Erm, that's all.
Andy Jones, says...
3:07pm Tue 29 May 07
emilystrange wrote:Because in each case someone broke into a house and stole something which was unattended at the time. Of *course* one was more valuable (on many levels), than the other, but that doesn't suddenly shift the blame from the burglar/abductor to the parents.
how can you liken a television to a child infact 3 children left unattened to , are you saying that this is ok,i must try it some time maybe i will get to travel the world and meet the pope
Andy Jones, Bolton says...
3:10pm Tue 29 May 07
Chris said: "Of course it was the parents' fault! Had they been in the room with their kids, this wouldn't have happened"
How do you know? That's an assumption on your part. The abductor could well have been armed and the presence of the parents might have made no difference whatsoever. People have things forcibly taken from them all the time.
How do you know? That's an assumption on your part. The abductor could well have been armed and the presence of the parents might have made no difference whatsoever. People have things forcibly taken from them all the time.
Chris, 493-137 says...
3:11pm Tue 29 May 07
Andy Jones wrote:Jesus, Andy - they left their children unattended!
emilystrange wrote: how can you liken a television to a child infact 3 children left unattened to , are you saying that this is ok,i must try it some time maybe i will get to travel the world and meet the popeBecause in each case someone broke into a house and stole something which was unattended at the time. Of *course* one was more valuable (on many levels), than the other, but that doesn\'t suddenly shift the blame from the burglar/abductor to the parents.
How can it NOT be their fault?
Me, says...
3:12pm Tue 29 May 07
HOW DARE YOU ALL BLAME THE PARENTS!!IF YOU ARE PARENTS YOURSELVES, DONT YOU DARE SAY THAT YOU ARE PEFECT!YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHMED OF YOURSELVES.THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH HELL AND BLAME THEMSELVES EVERY DAY!
THE PEOPLE OF BOLTON WHO COME ON HERE EVERY DAY AND MAKE THE SCUM BAG COMMENTS SHOULD TRY TO IMAGINE WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH AND HAVE SOME SYMPATHY.
THE PEOPLE OF BOLTON WHO COME ON HERE EVERY DAY AND MAKE THE SCUM BAG COMMENTS SHOULD TRY TO IMAGINE WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH AND HAVE SOME SYMPATHY.
Chris, Bolton says...
3:13pm Tue 29 May 07
Andy Jones wrote:And now you're talking wet.
Chris said: \"Of course it was the parents\' fault! Had they been in the room with their kids, this wouldn\'t have happened\" How do you know? That\'s an assumption on your part. The abductor could well have been armed and the presence of the parents might have made no difference whatsoever. People have things forcibly taken from them all the time.
Chris, on this planet says...
3:14pm Tue 29 May 07
Me wrote:No sympathy at all for the parents, it's their kids I feel sorry for.
HOW DARE YOU ALL BLAME THE PARENTS!!IF YOU ARE PARENTS YOURSELVES, DONT YOU DARE SAY THAT YOU ARE PEFECT!YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHMED OF YOURSELVES.THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH HELL AND BLAME THEMSELVES EVERY DAY! THE PEOPLE OF BOLTON WHO COME ON HERE EVERY DAY AND MAKE THE SCUM BAG COMMENTS SHOULD TRY TO IMAGINE WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH AND HAVE SOME SYMPATHY.
Alan, says...
3:20pm Tue 29 May 07
Andy Jones wrote:Yes she could of been abducted by Aliens.
Chris said: "Of course it was the parents' fault! Had they been in the room with their kids, this wouldn't have happened" How do you know? That's an assumption on your part. The abductor could well have been armed and the presence of the parents might have made no difference whatsoever. People have things forcibly taken from them all the time.
emily strange, says...
3:20pm Tue 29 May 07
well i don,t feel ashamed i wasn,t the one who decided not to use the babysitting service and swan out for a meal and leave my 3 kids on their own
Horwichallstars, says...
3:26pm Tue 29 May 07
What was the point of this fundraiser? If you are going to raise money for children who are in need, maybe they should be raising money for Derian House, The Teenagers Cancer Charity, or the NSPCC. There are plenty of neglected, abandonded and abused kids in Bolton - maybe the don't look at "pleasant" or make it onto the TV
Andy Jones, says...
3:26pm Tue 29 May 07
James said:
"Would you leave your car keys in the ignition unattended?"
Don't you ever leave your car unattended or do you sit in it all the time? Do you take your car keys into the shower with you? What if someone broke into your house whilst you were in the shower and nicked your car keys and car? Would that be your fault because you weren't watching them 100%? We shouldn't *have* to watch them. The blame lies 100% with the person who nicks the keys.
"Would you leave your car keys in the ignition unattended?"
Don't you ever leave your car unattended or do you sit in it all the time? Do you take your car keys into the shower with you? What if someone broke into your house whilst you were in the shower and nicked your car keys and car? Would that be your fault because you weren't watching them 100%? We shouldn't *have* to watch them. The blame lies 100% with the person who nicks the keys.
Phillipa, Eagley Bank, says...
3:30pm Tue 29 May 07
Can I just do a quick count and see how people on here are PERFECT and actually blame the parents? How many of the people of Bolton, this so called great town, think that the McCanns DESERVE TO HAVE THIR DAUGHTER TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM?
I am just curious as to how many SICKOS live here?
And could you all be so brave as to put your REAL names and the area you are from please? I have and dont see a reason to hide behind behind false names.
I am just curious as to how many SICKOS live here?
And could you all be so brave as to put your REAL names and the area you are from please? I have and dont see a reason to hide behind behind false names.
Andy Jones, says...
3:31pm Tue 29 May 07
Chris said: "Jesus, Andy - they left their children unattended! How can it NOT be their fault?"
Er.. A person broke into their flat and stole their child. How can it not be *his* fault?! Sure, in retrospect there are steps that the parents could have taken to stop this from happening, but the fact that they didn't DOES NOT MAKE IT THEIR FAULT THAT AN ABDUCTOR CHOSE TO BREAK INTO THEIR FLAT AND STEAL THEIR CHILD!!!
Because like I said
Er.. A person broke into their flat and stole their child. How can it not be *his* fault?! Sure, in retrospect there are steps that the parents could have taken to stop this from happening, but the fact that they didn't DOES NOT MAKE IT THEIR FAULT THAT AN ABDUCTOR CHOSE TO BREAK INTO THEIR FLAT AND STEAL THEIR CHILD!!!
Because like I said
Andy Jones, Bolton says...
3:34pm Tue 29 May 07
Phillipa said: "could you all be so brave as to put your REAL names and the area you are from please? I have and dont see a reason to hide behind behind false names."
No you haven't, you just put Phillipa from Eagley Bank, which is vague enough to be as effective as a false name. Put your full name and address if you want to make a point of not being anonymous, but I really don't see the point.
No you haven't, you just put Phillipa from Eagley Bank, which is vague enough to be as effective as a false name. Put your full name and address if you want to make a point of not being anonymous, but I really don't see the point.
Andy Jones, says...
3:36pm Tue 29 May 07
Chris wrote:Is that supposed to be a counter argument? Hmm...
Andy Jones wrote: Chris said: \"Of course it was the parents\' fault! Had they been in the room with their kids, this wouldn\'t have happened\" How do you know? That\'s an assumption on your part. The abductor could well have been armed and the presence of the parents might have made no difference whatsoever. People have things forcibly taken from them all the time.And now you're talking wet.
Chris, Not on a high horse, unlike Phillipa says...
3:41pm Tue 29 May 07
Oh dear, Phillipa. I don't think you like me very much, do you?
I, for one blame the parents for leaving a young child alone while they lived it up in an a la carte restaurant. It's irrelevant that it was only 50 metres or so away with a 'line of view' to the room. It may as well have been 50 miles away, as the line of view was evidently not good enough.
I don't believe that any of us who blame the parents have said that they deserve what's happened, but they certainly didn't help matters by abandoning their three children for the sake of an evening out.
What do you define as a 'sicko'? For me, any parent who leaves their children unattended falls into that category.
And I would also like to point out that my posts, other than the last two, stipulate that I live in Bolton. Or would you prefer my full address so you can come round and abuse me face-to-face?
I, for one blame the parents for leaving a young child alone while they lived it up in an a la carte restaurant. It's irrelevant that it was only 50 metres or so away with a 'line of view' to the room. It may as well have been 50 miles away, as the line of view was evidently not good enough.
I don't believe that any of us who blame the parents have said that they deserve what's happened, but they certainly didn't help matters by abandoning their three children for the sake of an evening out.
What do you define as a 'sicko'? For me, any parent who leaves their children unattended falls into that category.
And I would also like to point out that my posts, other than the last two, stipulate that I live in Bolton. Or would you prefer my full address so you can come round and abuse me face-to-face?
Phillipa, Eagley Bank, Bolton says...
3:41pm Tue 29 May 07
Eagley Bank is an extremely small area so anyone called Philipa would be immediately known to the people of the area. What do you want? My landline? Mobile number? E-Mail address?
As for being called Andy Jones? How many of these are there in Bolton?
I would say one more than there actually is because you are not man enough to give a real name and address?
But the again, what kind of real man would come on a public site and blame defenceless people for a tragedy in their lives?
Do you have children Andy? A wife? Are you perfect?
I DOUBT IT VERY MUCH!!!!
As for being called Andy Jones? How many of these are there in Bolton?
I would say one more than there actually is because you are not man enough to give a real name and address?
But the again, what kind of real man would come on a public site and blame defenceless people for a tragedy in their lives?
Do you have children Andy? A wife? Are you perfect?
I DOUBT IT VERY MUCH!!!!
emilystrange, bolotn says...
3:45pm Tue 29 May 07
i would just like to point out "philipa" from "eagley" i did not say they deserved this,if you care to read the thread ,iam also not a sickothank you very much.
Phillipa, Eagley Bank, Bolton says...
3:49pm Tue 29 May 07
Chris wrote:So, when one day, your child gets kidnapped, or something really bad happens to you, such as, you get your head stamped on because, in the eyes of people who come on here (YOU DESERVED IT), are you going to come on here and mouth off your stupid opinions?
Oh dear, Phillipa. I don\\\'t think you like me very much, do you? I, for one blame the parents for leaving a young child alone while they lived it up in an a la carte restaurant. It\\\'s irrelevant that it was only 50 metres or so away with a \\\'line of view\\\' to the room. It may as well have been 50 miles away, as the line of view was evidently not good enough. I don\\\'t believe that any of us who blame the parents have said that they deserve what\\\'s happened, but they certainly didn\\\'t help matters by abandoning their three children for the sake of an evening out. What do you define as a \\\'sicko\\\'? For me, any parent who leaves their children unattended falls into that category. And I would also like to point out that my posts, other than the last two, stipulate that I live in Bolton. Or would you prefer my full address so you can come round and abuse me face-to-face?
Mmm, I doubt it. Although, you wouldnt get brain damage because one needs a brain to suustaain such an injury in the first place.
IDIOT!!!
Chris, Bolton says...
3:51pm Tue 29 May 07
Phillipa, I think you'll find that you have just turned on Andy when he actually agrees with your point.
ROFLMAO
ROFLMAO
Chris, Bolton says...
3:55pm Tue 29 May 07
'Suustaain'?
What was that about brain damage, Pippa?
It's a dangerous game, is abusing people - particularly when you're none too bright yourself.
End of round 3
What was that about brain damage, Pippa?
It's a dangerous game, is abusing people - particularly when you're none too bright yourself.
End of round 3
Andy Jones, says...
3:56pm Tue 29 May 07
Phillipa ranted:
"Eagley Bank is an extremely small area so anyone called Philipa would be immediately known to the people of the area."
So what? So you're acknowledging that a "extremely small" amount of people might be able to guess who you are. That still makes you effectively anonymous to everyone here.
Phillipa continued:
"What do you want? My landline? Mobile number? E-Mail address?"
*I* don't want any of it, it's *your* curious obsession that everyone reveal their full name. As I said, I really don't see the point.
Phillipa ranted further:
"As for being called Andy Jones? How many of these are there in Bolton? I would say one more than there actually is because you are not man enough to give a real name and address?"
What is this "man enough" rubbish? What does it matter? You're not using your real name anyway - sometimes it's Phillipa, sometimes it's Philipa. You'd think if it were real, you'd be able to spell it right.. Sheesh, you raging hypocrite!
Phillipa ranted some more:
"But the again, what kind of real man would come on a public site and blame defenceless people for a tragedy in their lives?"
Er.. you've ranted so much that you seem to be rather confused about who said what in this thread. I'm actually *defending* the McCanns and saying that they're *not* to blame. Read the thread again if you're confused, Philipa.
Phillipa rounded off with:
"Do you have children Andy? A wife? Are you perfect?"
Yes, yes, apparently.
"Eagley Bank is an extremely small area so anyone called Philipa would be immediately known to the people of the area."
So what? So you're acknowledging that a "extremely small" amount of people might be able to guess who you are. That still makes you effectively anonymous to everyone here.
Phillipa continued:
"What do you want? My landline? Mobile number? E-Mail address?"
*I* don't want any of it, it's *your* curious obsession that everyone reveal their full name. As I said, I really don't see the point.
Phillipa ranted further:
"As for being called Andy Jones? How many of these are there in Bolton? I would say one more than there actually is because you are not man enough to give a real name and address?"
What is this "man enough" rubbish? What does it matter? You're not using your real name anyway - sometimes it's Phillipa, sometimes it's Philipa. You'd think if it were real, you'd be able to spell it right.. Sheesh, you raging hypocrite!
Phillipa ranted some more:
"But the again, what kind of real man would come on a public site and blame defenceless people for a tragedy in their lives?"
Er.. you've ranted so much that you seem to be rather confused about who said what in this thread. I'm actually *defending* the McCanns and saying that they're *not* to blame. Read the thread again if you're confused, Philipa.
Phillipa rounded off with:
"Do you have children Andy? A wife? Are you perfect?"
Yes, yes, apparently.
James, Westhoughton says...
4:02pm Tue 29 May 07
Andy Jones wrote:I've got two dogs Andy - I think they'll ensure safety of my car keys.
James said: "Would you leave your car keys in the ignition unattended?" Don't you ever leave your car unattended or do you sit in it all the time? Do you take your car keys into the shower with you? What if someone broke into your house whilst you were in the shower and nicked your car keys and car? Would that be your fault because you weren't watching them 100%? We shouldn't *have* to watch them. The blame lies 100% with the person who nicks the keys.
I do not consider myself sick, I consider the McCann's to be negligent in the care and duty of the welfare of their children. For god's sake, putting what had happened to one side, a child could have choked, drowned, cut themselves (I guess by some people here, that would be the fault of the apartment owners for leaving knifes in the place). You simply DONT leave children that age on their own, regardless.
I feel sorry for Madeleline, not her parents.
James, Westhoughton says...
4:19pm Tue 29 May 07
neglect (noun)
1. withholding of proper care
the failure to give proper care or attention to somebody or something
2. lack of care
lack of proper care or attention
(DONT SHOOT ME, SHOOT THE ENCARTA DICTIONARY)
NEGLECT seems to sum it up perfectly as far as I can see.
1. withholding of proper care
the failure to give proper care or attention to somebody or something
2. lack of care
lack of proper care or attention
(DONT SHOOT ME, SHOOT THE ENCARTA DICTIONARY)
NEGLECT seems to sum it up perfectly as far as I can see.
Daisy, says...
4:33pm Tue 29 May 07
I agree James.
When the details came to light i thought of how those toddlers would have coped if one of them started to vomit just as mum and dad had done their half hourly check.
Sitting around distressed for another half an hour until they came back.
No, we cant expect parents to be next to their kids 24/7, but every parent needs to do a risk asessment where their kids are concerned, and this one just had too many holes in it.
When the details came to light i thought of how those toddlers would have coped if one of them started to vomit just as mum and dad had done their half hourly check.
Sitting around distressed for another half an hour until they came back.
No, we cant expect parents to be next to their kids 24/7, but every parent needs to do a risk asessment where their kids are concerned, and this one just had too many holes in it.
Diamond, Bolton says...
4:35pm Tue 29 May 07
Sun Tzu wrote:Well said.
I think it's unfair and cruel to critisize the Mcanns. This could have happened to anyone, and only those who have been unfortunate enough to have had to live through such a nightmare, are really qualified to pass judgement on the way they have conducted themselves We can't influence what happens in other lands, but what we can do is put measure in place to lessen the chances of this happening in our own country. Hanging child murderers WOULD act as a deterent to others. People like Ian Huntley could repay their debt to society and serve a useful purpose by being hung and made example of.
Sun Tzu, says...
4:43pm Tue 29 May 07
This could have happened whilst the parents were asleep in the next room. Would you still have condemned them? or are parents to be ever present and constantly watchful, and one must remain awake at all times. Yes, it's a ludicrous suggestion, but if you follow some of the arguements put forward here to their logical conclusion, then thats where you end up.
Life is about managing risks and hanging paedophiles and perverts is a good way to manage this risk. Then decent people like the Mcanns can take a family holiday with their children without worrying about perverts lurking in every bush.
And James
To hell with your dictionary, we are talking about a 4 year old child who will probabably never atain your age and live through all the happy times and experience's which you have been fortunate enough to have. So you know where you shove your dictionary.
Life is about managing risks and hanging paedophiles and perverts is a good way to manage this risk. Then decent people like the Mcanns can take a family holiday with their children without worrying about perverts lurking in every bush.
And James
To hell with your dictionary, we are talking about a 4 year old child who will probabably never atain your age and live through all the happy times and experience's which you have been fortunate enough to have. So you know where you shove your dictionary.
James, Westhoughton says...
4:59pm Tue 29 May 07
Sun Tzu wrote:IF this had happened when the parents were in the villa, then yes, I would have all the sympathy in the world for them.
This could have happened whilst the parents were asleep in the next room. Would you still have condemned them? or are parents to be ever present and constantly watchful, and one must remain awake at all times. Yes, it's a ludicrous suggestion, but if you follow some of the arguements put forward here to their logical conclusion, then thats where you end up. Life is about managing risks and hanging paedophiles and perverts is a good way to manage this risk. Then decent people like the Mcanns can take a family holiday with their children without worrying about perverts lurking in every bush. And James To hell with your dictionary, we are talking about a 4 year old child who will probabably never atain your age and live through all the happy times and experience's which you have been fortunate enough to have. So you know where you shove your dictionary.
However, when they put a meal higher up the agenda than the welfare of their children then any sympathy or respect goes out of the window.
I ask you a simple yes or no question - WOULD YOU LEAVE A CHILD UNATTENDED (OUT OF YOUR SIGHT) AND ONLY CHECK UP ON THEM EVERY HALF AN HOUR?
I do not once believe I have come out in support of child snatchers or paedophiles or any other kind of child abuse. Your implication that because I think the McCann's are at fault makes me a sicko, then frankly, you have not read or understood my argument one little bit and is offensive in the extreme.
You can hang them for all for me. However, the point I am making, that in MY opinion the McCann's were wrong in what they have done leading to a terrible tragedy.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the whole issue of neglect. What else can you call it? they consciously went out for a meal and left their children, that is not an accident, in which case it is intentional behaviour and therefore is derelection of duty - i.e. NEGLECT.
A woman was sent to prison for leaving a 12 year old home alone when she went off to Spain on holiday. What is the difference? The children were left ALONE, it does not matter that they checked up "every 30 minutes".
Basil Rathbone, says...
5:54pm Tue 29 May 07
A fun Day
WTF is going on ?
77,000 british children go missing each year
british people donate more to animal charities than children's charities.
this quote .... "We have seen her on the TV and she looked such a pleasant girl and we hope they find her."
.....is unfortunately what it comes down to, if the media decide a fuss is worth making, and there's no other news around then everyone is on it.
A senior officer got lambasted the other year for pointing out that blonde haired pretty kids get more coverage, and the notion of the media "choosing" who gets coverage or not is a bit sick.
WTF is going on ?
77,000 british children go missing each year
british people donate more to animal charities than children's charities.
this quote .... "We have seen her on the TV and she looked such a pleasant girl and we hope they find her."
.....is unfortunately what it comes down to, if the media decide a fuss is worth making, and there's no other news around then everyone is on it.
A senior officer got lambasted the other year for pointing out that blonde haired pretty kids get more coverage, and the notion of the media "choosing" who gets coverage or not is a bit sick.
emma, bolton says...
6:00pm Tue 29 May 07
Daisy wrote:here here daisy. my point exactly,what if they had just done their last check, 1 child woke up then woke the others, 3 kids under 5 in an apartment by therselves?? what if they decided to entertain themselves til their parents come back, god knows what my 3 kids (who are also all under 5) would get upto if i left them unsupervised for half n hour. not only that, what about them waking up, shouting their mum n dad and nobody comes. tell me this, if an alcoholic hade left their kids alone and went to the shop for a bottle of ale how would they be percieved.
I agree James. When the details came to light i thought of how those toddlers would have coped if one of them started to vomit just as mum and dad had done their half hourly check. Sitting around distressed for another half an hour until they came back. No, we cant expect parents to be next to their kids 24/7, but every parent needs to do a risk asessment where their kids are concerned, and this one just had too many holes in it.
Andy Jones, Bolton says...
6:33pm Tue 29 May 07
I think you have to separate your opinion on whether the parents were neglectful, with the reality of what *actually* happened. I agree that the parents should not have left the kids alone. I would also agree that if the kids had come to some harm by wandering off the balcony or pulling the TV onto themselves (or any other accident that people have suggested), then the parents would rightfully be to blame. However, what actually happened was a bloke broke his way into the apartment and stole their child. That's a different matter altogether and it wasn't an accident caused by the lack of supervision. Sure, you could *assume* that had the parents been there it wouldn't have happened (to support a neglect argument), but you can't be sure of that. The exact same thing could have happened even if Madeline had been 16 years old and thus there'd be no issue of neglect, and you wouldn't blame the parents then.
In a nutshell, yes they were guilty of neglect, but it was not this neglect that caused the loss of their child - even if you believe that their presence would have unwittingly stopped it.
In a nutshell, yes they were guilty of neglect, but it was not this neglect that caused the loss of their child - even if you believe that their presence would have unwittingly stopped it.
ben dover, horwich says...
7:12pm Tue 29 May 07
Well, here we go lets all hope maddie is found safe and well we can get to the root of who is to blame when and if she is found ,I am sure that the parents are grieving deep in side but people express emotions in difrent ways we dont watch the mccanns 24hrs a day so try to put your self in there shoes, although the questions to ask your self would you have left your children yards away from you? well not being a hypocrite yes we did in january skiing but we stayed in the hotel and had the baby monitor on this doesnt mean it was right but that was the risk we took like crossing the road life,s a risk every day I do agree that when I read the mccanns story of whats in a normal day for them now I was suprised that they sent there twins to nursery for hours on end, this is not very clever in my opinion as you would have thought that they wouldnt risk any other person apart from family to look after there other 2 children hide sight is a wonderfull tool so lets stop arguing and hope and pray maddie is well and not dead, and that she is returned to where she belongs
kerry, says...
10:08pm Tue 29 May 07
Sun Tzu wrote:what abductors ?
James If you do think Madeleines parents are just as guilty as the abductors, then I pity you, and all the people that are ever unfortunate enough to come into contact with.
no evidence of an abduction or kidnap
this child could of woken and wandered potugal has areas where you can drive for hours up into the mountains without seeing a house or a person .it would be easy to get lost or get into trouble especially for a toddler
i know if this were me i would be arrested at the airport and be in bolton police cells
yes her parents were negligent without a doubt and they are making it worse by saying its the same as having a bbq in the back garden
my sympathies go to maddie , poor baby bless her i do hope she is found safe soon
Mother of a three year old, says...
10:18pm Tue 29 May 07
I feel I need to comment on this as I am a mother of a little girl who is due to turn four in a matter of weeks.
To all of you who have stated that "we've all done it" in as much as leaving our kids alone, taken chances etc. I for one have never done this.
I agree with the majority that the parents were misguided in leaving the children - and the patio doors open?!
However, I feel sure that they wouldn't or couldn't have imagined for a moment that something as horrific as this could have befallen them.
I am also sure, without question that if this awful situation had arisen in the UK that social services would have been involved (make no mistake).
That said, I cannot im
To all of you who have stated that "we've all done it" in as much as leaving our kids alone, taken chances etc. I for one have never done this.
I agree with the majority that the parents were misguided in leaving the children - and the patio doors open?!
However, I feel sure that they wouldn't or couldn't have imagined for a moment that something as horrific as this could have befallen them.
I am also sure, without question that if this awful situation had arisen in the UK that social services would have been involved (make no mistake).
That said, I cannot im
Tubby Scruff, says...
11:38am Tue 29 May 07
However, money wont find the child, luck and good Police work will.
Sadly the McCanns have or are fast becoming a circus act. The media coverage has got away from reporting to a more celeb like status. Why Jerry McCann had to have it known he'd taken a private jet to England I'll never know. The thing is, where is the emotion from the Parents, I've never seen any. Whether this is part of their Doctors training I don't know but to me they seem detached.
For as long as the media hype continues the chances of finding Madelline reduce. I fully understand the reasons and sympathise with the family but, whoever has her will keep underground whilst every movement / report by the family is so high profile.
Lets not forget the thousands of other children who go missing every year.
Before the negheads jump down my throat, I guess if it was me, I would do the same.