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Stayaway Reebok fans: What's the answer?
10:51am Wednesday 14th November 2007
Comments (283) Have your say »
By Gordon Sharrock »
BOLTON Wanderers are banking on new boss Gary Megson delivering results that will lift them clear of the relegation zone and ease growing concerns over a dramatic drop in attendances.
Crowd figures at the Reebok have slumped to a record low as the Whites have struggled at the wrong end of the Premiership.
We want all supporters to give the club their backing and there are a great number who are and many more will as soon as results start to come
- commercial director, Gareth Moores
And, while they are considering a range of incentives to boost gates, they don't expect any significant improvement until the team starts climbing the table.
"The stark reality is that the club is struggling on the pitch," commercial director, Gareth Moores, said.
"We're in the bottom three and a lot of supporters have voted with their feet.
"What we need to do is deliver results, which I'm sure we will.
"We've seen some terrific performances recently, which we are all confident will soon start to translate into results."
The attendance of 17,624 for Sunday's clash with Middlesbrough was the lowest for a Premier League game since the Reebok opened in September 1997, down almost 800 on the previous low for the Aston Villa game a fortnight earlier.
And although the drop was almost entirely accounted for by the number of visiting supporters, the crowd was 3,500 lower than the correspondiong fixture last season, despite an incentive offering season ticket holders a chance to bring a friend and get a free ticket for the forthcoming UEFA Cup game against Aris Salonica.
"Previous incentives, when we have reduced ticket prices, have been very successful," Moores said. "But we had comments from season ticket holders asking What is in it for us?' So instead of reducing the ticket price, we did it slightly different for the Middlesbrough game and offered the incentive to the season ticket holders.
"Unfortunately, that was not anywhere near as successful, but we'll certainly review the situation and might consider doing something similar again, although it's not necessarily a pricing thing. Results and performances are the main factor."
Attendances are currently averaging 20,558 - down 13 per cent on last season's average which was 6.5 per cent down on the previous year's - despite a 10 per cent drop in season ticket prices. A variety of factors have contributed to the decline: the lack of a big name signing, 10 home games in the first three months, and the managerial turmoil.
But it is results - Wanderers have won just one of their first 13 Premier League games - that are proving a turn-off for the fans.
"The Aston Villa game was sandwiched between two cup games and clearly attending Premier League football is a (financial) burden on every family," Moores acknowledged. "Many selected one or both the cup gmes and chose to sit at home and watch the Aston Villa game on Sky.
"We have had a lot of home games in a short space of time. But we can't get complacent. What will bring people back to the Reebok is good football and winning games.
"We can slash prices - as we did for the first European game (against Rabotnicki) when we only charged £5 - but even that didn't fill the stadium."
The Boro gate - more than 10,000 down on the Reebok's capacity - came just three days after 4,000 Wanderers fans cheered the team's dramatic 2-2 draw at Bayern Munich in the UEFA Cup. But Wanderers acknowledged that many of those who travelled to Germany had taken a financial hammering.
"There were a lot of positives to take from that, which might have suggested there'd be an attendance bounce," Moores said, "but, on the other hand, a lot of people spent an awful lot of money going to Munich and there are, clearly, more attractive fixtures than Bolton-Middlesbrough.
"It is a concern for us, absolutely. But it isn't just a Bolton Wanderers problem. There has been an attendance decline across a number of clubs in recent years. The one thing we have to recognise is that our position in the league is far lower than the position we have enjoyed in recent years.
"We want all supporters to give the club their backing and there are a great number who are and many more will as soon as results start to come.
"Season ticket sales were down to just under 14,000 in the summer but we had just come off the back of four years as the fifth best performing team in the Premier League. Sam Allardyce left the club and a lot of people thought we had reached the top of the mountain."
Your Say Yourtheboltonnews
YouriLeGod, Bolton says...
11:11am Wed 14 Nov 07
I think that most reasonable fans will agree that we have overachieved over the past few years. 20 years ago when we were schlepping around the likes of Scarborough, Halifax and York, nobody would ever have believed we would be playing Bayern Munich, Marseilles and Red Star Belgrade in Europe.
But we managed it and expectations rose, as did the crowds and a new stadium.
Now it looks like we are struggling and are under achieving. Lets face it, most of us thought we would struggle this season after the way we finished last season.
There are many reasons for this, which have been discussed in this forum but one thing that annoys me more than most is the way that the fans or 'customers' as the board like to call us, are treated.
We are seen as the root cause of the problem. We complain when things don't go well and have the audacity to pick and choose which matches we attend. Well after the game on Sunday, is it any wonder? I have been a season ticket holder for many years and go to all home games but don't travel away as I think football is too expensive. Over the years we have had some great atmospheres at the Reebok but the place seems like it has died. No doubt the United match will be the same. No atmosphere and a resignation that we are here on one of our 'free games'.
The board are looking at new ways of delivering the product to our fans. What a crock of ****. What is wrong with a winning team or a team that gets beaten, but at least has a bloody good go? A set of fans that gets behind the team whatever the situation. It can be done, I bet a large proportion of those that went to Munich didn't expect a draw or a win.
It is time that the board looked closer to home and sorted out the problems themselves. It is very easy to say that there are not enough coming through the gates. Make it more attractive.
It says on my season ticket 'This is My Club'.
Well it doesn't feel like it.
I feel like we are people they see as a money making opportunity, who can be sponged for every penny they can get out of us. Even outside with those idiots trying every week to flog me a BWFC credit card. The board seem that they are just looking at money making instead of the real reason for existance which is in the name of the club.
As far as I am aware our name is Bolton Wanderers Football Club. It is my club, in that I support it, but there is very little else I feel like I have in common with it. They don't listen to fans, as has been bourne out in the past month or so.
They face alot more people turning their backs on the club and have only themselves to blame.
Sorry for the ramble but thats how I feel.
Forza Whites!
But we managed it and expectations rose, as did the crowds and a new stadium.
Now it looks like we are struggling and are under achieving. Lets face it, most of us thought we would struggle this season after the way we finished last season.
There are many reasons for this, which have been discussed in this forum but one thing that annoys me more than most is the way that the fans or 'customers' as the board like to call us, are treated.
We are seen as the root cause of the problem. We complain when things don't go well and have the audacity to pick and choose which matches we attend. Well after the game on Sunday, is it any wonder? I have been a season ticket holder for many years and go to all home games but don't travel away as I think football is too expensive. Over the years we have had some great atmospheres at the Reebok but the place seems like it has died. No doubt the United match will be the same. No atmosphere and a resignation that we are here on one of our 'free games'.
The board are looking at new ways of delivering the product to our fans. What a crock of ****. What is wrong with a winning team or a team that gets beaten, but at least has a bloody good go? A set of fans that gets behind the team whatever the situation. It can be done, I bet a large proportion of those that went to Munich didn't expect a draw or a win.
It is time that the board looked closer to home and sorted out the problems themselves. It is very easy to say that there are not enough coming through the gates. Make it more attractive.
It says on my season ticket 'This is My Club'.
Well it doesn't feel like it.
I feel like we are people they see as a money making opportunity, who can be sponged for every penny they can get out of us. Even outside with those idiots trying every week to flog me a BWFC credit card. The board seem that they are just looking at money making instead of the real reason for existance which is in the name of the club.
As far as I am aware our name is Bolton Wanderers Football Club. It is my club, in that I support it, but there is very little else I feel like I have in common with it. They don't listen to fans, as has been bourne out in the past month or so.
They face alot more people turning their backs on the club and have only themselves to blame.
Sorry for the ramble but thats how I feel.
Forza Whites!
birch, chorley says...
11:17am Wed 14 Nov 07
The board is paying the price for not doing enough in the summer, this was the first season i did not get a season ticket in 15. why because there was no incentive to buy one, it would have cost me £466, instead i got a membership for £20 and get £5 off per game, it only works out a little cheaper for a season ticket and thats if you dont miss a game all season. They should have had a bigger discount lasting all through the summer.
secondly its how they have sold out on the bread and butter fans instead of the so called family support, try getting rid of that band, they are more embarrasing than the attendances.
that munich excuse is lost on me because i was out there and everyone i spoke to has stopped going the reebok not due to on the field but all the other stuff that lets the reebok down.
secondly its how they have sold out on the bread and butter fans instead of the so called family support, try getting rid of that band, they are more embarrasing than the attendances.
that munich excuse is lost on me because i was out there and everyone i spoke to has stopped going the reebok not due to on the field but all the other stuff that lets the reebok down.
Chris Manning, TW says...
11:20am Wed 14 Nov 07
Bring back terracing.
BWFC-TIL-I-DIE, BOLTON says...
11:22am Wed 14 Nov 07
We can slash prices - as we did for the first European game (against Rabotnicki) when we only charged £5 - but even that didn't fill the stadium
its not just the ticket prices you complete stiffs!!!!! IT IS THE WAY THE FANS ARE TREATED BY THE CLUB!!! GARTSIDE IS ENEMY NO.1 AND IS 100% TO BLAME AS FAR AS IM CONCERNED... ITS NOT EVEN JUST THE LACK OF AMBITION AND MONEY ITS THE FACT THAT HE LIES THROUGH HIS TEETH CONSTANTLY TO THE FANS, HE'S FULL OF EMPTY PROMISES AND TALKS TO US AND ABOUT US LIKE WE DONT MATTER AND DONT EVEN EXIST IN HIS EYES~~!!! SACK HIM NOW BEFORE SUPPORT DISAPPEARS COMPLETELY !!!
VERY SHORT SITED BY THE CLUB IF THEY THINK THE BLAME LIES ELSEWHERE!!!!!!
Chris Manning, TW says...
11:23am Wed 14 Nov 07
and the inappropriate cheerleaders
Jordan, Manchester says...
11:27am Wed 14 Nov 07
There are many reasons for this, which have been discussed in this forum but one thing that annoys me more than most is the way that the fans or 'customers' as the board like to call us, are treated.
Completely agree... i feel like the fun has been taken out of the game because of commercialism and arrogance.
The fans have been treated awfully by the club over the last 6 or so years. People might say 'well they have offered reduced tickets' etc etc, but lets face it, they've only done that because the ground isnt selling out.
If the stadium was full every week, they wouldnt be offering us anything.
in the 97/98 season we struggled the whole season, but we still had a crowd of 25k every week. But at that time, the demographics of the support was changing. Many of the fans that followed the whites at burnden, home and away, no longer go. In the first instance because of the price, in the second instance because we used to stand in the terraces and enjoy banter - but are no longer allowed to, and thirdly because Bolton Wanderers was a FOOTBALL CLUB. Now it is being treated as a business and we are the customers instead of fans.
This is our club? You're having a laugh...
Joe, Bolton says...
11:28am Wed 14 Nov 07
How to increase attendances:-
1. Introduce standing areas to create an atmosphere.
2. Improve facilities so that fans can relax before and after the match in warmth and comfort with fairly priced refreshments. This will stop everyone arriving and leaving at the same time and stopping the gridlock.
3. Reduce ticket prices. A 10% reduction is not enough. Price should be £10-£15
The reason's above are why me and a dozen of my mates stopped going. Sort it out and we will return. simple as that.
1. Introduce standing areas to create an atmosphere.
2. Improve facilities so that fans can relax before and after the match in warmth and comfort with fairly priced refreshments. This will stop everyone arriving and leaving at the same time and stopping the gridlock.
3. Reduce ticket prices. A 10% reduction is not enough. Price should be £10-£15
The reason's above are why me and a dozen of my mates stopped going. Sort it out and we will return. simple as that.
Chris Manning, TW says...
11:32am Wed 14 Nov 07
Completely agree... i feel like the fun has been taken out of the game because of commercialism and arrogance.
has anyone ever had dealings with the head steward? a more arrogant and self-important person you would struggle to find.
people like him are ruining the whole point of football - shouting at fans like children "stand up, sit down, stop smoking, stop swearing, stop pointing".
the match day experience is nothing like it was even 5/10yrs ago. it isn't much fun anymore.
Andy W, says...
11:44am Wed 14 Nov 07
Whingeing morons, The club is really well run and you lot can't see it.
You need to get behind the team not go on like a bunch of moaning idiots.
Honestly, we have the worst fans in the world.
We did well under Big Sam and the attendances started to drop off. Bolton doesn't deserve a football team. It's pathetic the way some of you go on.
You need to get behind the team not go on like a bunch of moaning idiots.
Honestly, we have the worst fans in the world.
We did well under Big Sam and the attendances started to drop off. Bolton doesn't deserve a football team. It's pathetic the way some of you go on.
BWFC-TIL-I-DIE, BOLTON says...
11:47am Wed 14 Nov 07
Andy W wrote:WAKE UP MATE....... IF YOU DO NOT REALISE BY NOW ITS BEING RUN DOWN BY PG AND CO THEN YOU REALLY ARE A PRATT !!!
Whingeing morons, The club is really well run and you lot can't see it. You need to get behind the team not go on like a bunch of moaning idiots. Honestly, we have the worst fans in the world. We did well under Big Sam and the attendances started to drop off. Bolton doesn't deserve a football team. It's pathetic the way some of you go on.
birch, chorley says...
11:50am Wed 14 Nov 07
Andy W wrote:shut your mouth!
Whingeing morons, The club is really well run and you lot can't see it. You need to get behind the team not go on like a bunch of moaning idiots. Honestly, we have the worst fans in the world. We did well under Big Sam and the attendances started to drop off. Bolton doesn't deserve a football team. It's pathetic the way some of you go on.
how many times have you been thrown out by an over aggressive steward 5 mins after you have just paid £36 for a ticket?
how many times have they moved a whole orchestra next to where you sit thinking it will make atmosphere better when it acctually makes it worse?
How many times has the club sold your season ticket seat from undernath you because they got greedy and decided to move the renewal deadline forward a month?
you my friend are an idiot, and if you got to all the away games as we do then you would see how clubs are run properly.
Batman, TW says...
11:52am Wed 14 Nov 07
Andy W wrote:No thanks Adolf. We pay our money and if we think something is worth noting then we will!
Whingeing morons, The club is really well run and you lot can't see it. You need to get behind the team not go on like a bunch of moaning idiots. Honestly, we have the worst fans in the world. We did well under Big Sam and the attendances started to drop off. Bolton doesn't deserve a football team. It's pathetic the way some of you go on.
BWFC-TIL-I-DIE, BOLTON says...
11:57am Wed 14 Nov 07
SOMETHING SERIOUS IS GOING ON AT OUR CLUB AT THE MOMENT... EVERYBODY KNOWS IT, NOBODY KNOWS WHAT - APART FROM THE POWERS THAT BE.. WHY CANT PG COME OUT IN PUBLIC, GROW SOME 8011OCK5 AND TELL THE FANS THE TRUTH ABOUT THE WHOLE STATE OF PLAY AT THE REEBOK... THIS BEATS INSULTING OUR INTELLIGENCE... SO COME ON GARTSIDE - SPEAK UP OF PACK YA BAGS, DO THE DECENT THING AND F%%k OFF !!!
jimmy, halliwell says...
12:08pm Wed 14 Nov 07
this is from another post yesterday but is bang on
wrothy wrote:
half the problem with the crowds at home are they dont represent good value for money,and thats not including the team on the pitch,the reason that burnden was so electric on match day was cos half the crowd had been on a pub crawl before the game fact! bumping into old mates and having a laugh so everyone in good spirits,were r the pubs at the reebok? beehive eatery,barnstormers, horwich park inn were your thrown out for a slip of the tongue,why dont they set up beer tents or something around the stadium,or in the stadium charging realistic prices £1.80 a pint not £2.80 for watered down fosters £2.30 for a greenhalges pie when their selling them in the shops for a quid?? £2.50 for an hotdog get real!!! before anyone goes onabout policing and hooligans their is always a good police presence at home games let them earn their money and football violence is a thing of the past in england with all the banning orders and prison terms being dished out,you could set up beer tents at each end of ground were everyone could meet have a few beers sing a few songs and get ready for the match this would produce a fantastic atmosphere inside the ground not rocket science is it. plus you would bring in extra revenue through putting it out to tender,it would be like a little village like they have in manchester from time to time with the bavarian markets basic beer and food at nice prices maybe even a bit of music and some bloody heaters!!!!
nail on the head!!!!!
y not have a section of the ground for over 18 put more or good bar staf on there and turn a blind eye to the odd miss used four letter word
the pc mob have recked the match day experiance this is why the pubs showing all the games are doing so well
i dont stay way for anyother reason than i cant have a few beers have a banter. i can however in the pub.
wrothy wrote:
half the problem with the crowds at home are they dont represent good value for money,and thats not including the team on the pitch,the reason that burnden was so electric on match day was cos half the crowd had been on a pub crawl before the game fact! bumping into old mates and having a laugh so everyone in good spirits,were r the pubs at the reebok? beehive eatery,barnstormers, horwich park inn were your thrown out for a slip of the tongue,why dont they set up beer tents or something around the stadium,or in the stadium charging realistic prices £1.80 a pint not £2.80 for watered down fosters £2.30 for a greenhalges pie when their selling them in the shops for a quid?? £2.50 for an hotdog get real!!! before anyone goes onabout policing and hooligans their is always a good police presence at home games let them earn their money and football violence is a thing of the past in england with all the banning orders and prison terms being dished out,you could set up beer tents at each end of ground were everyone could meet have a few beers sing a few songs and get ready for the match this would produce a fantastic atmosphere inside the ground not rocket science is it. plus you would bring in extra revenue through putting it out to tender,it would be like a little village like they have in manchester from time to time with the bavarian markets basic beer and food at nice prices maybe even a bit of music and some bloody heaters!!!!
nail on the head!!!!!
y not have a section of the ground for over 18 put more or good bar staf on there and turn a blind eye to the odd miss used four letter word
the pc mob have recked the match day experiance this is why the pubs showing all the games are doing so well
i dont stay way for anyother reason than i cant have a few beers have a banter. i can however in the pub.
jay, bolton says...
12:09pm Wed 14 Nov 07
the attendances have dropped even more simply because Gartside is a fkwit and appointed the cheapest possible option for manager, im still baffled how you interview some1 for a job see that they have won 7 in 40odd prem games then decide he must be good enough to manage us! Instead of turning up week in week out with Gartside out banners and protesting at the tw4t ruining our club, alot of just decided to save their time and money! Cant really blame them really, im only going in future when i get hold of a free ticket and theres enough of them about because even season ticket holders are not bothering! There would be more fans turning up if Gartside showed some ambition when appointing a manager, simple as!
Unique, Bolton says...
12:13pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Barclays Premier League Table - November 12 2007 Pos Team P W D L F A GD Pts Last 6
Previous years: 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 Click column headers to reorder columns.
Uefa Champions League: 1st, 2nd
Uefa Champions League pre Qualifying: 3rd, 4th
Relegation: 18th, 19th, 20th
1 Arsenal 12 9 3 0 27 10 17 30 14
2 Manchester United 13 9 3 1 23 6 17 30 16
3 Manchester City 13 8 2 3 16 13 3 26 13
4 Chelsea 13 7 4 2 19 9 10 25 14
5 Liverpool 12 6 6 0 19 6 13 24 12
6 Portsmouth 13 6 5 2 23 13 10 23 14
7 Blackburn Rovers 12 6 4 2 15 11 4 22 13
8 Aston Villa 12 6 3 3 18 14 4 21 11
9 Everton 13 6 2 5 19 15 4 20 10
10 West Ham United 12 5 3 4 18 10 8 18 8
11 Newcastle United 12 5 3 4 19 18 1 18 7
12 Reading 13 4 1 8 16 29 -13 13 6
13 Fulham 13 2 6 5 16 20 -4 12 6
14 Tottenham Hotspur 13 2 5 6 23 24 -1 11 6
15 Birmingham City 13 3 2 8 13 20 -7 11 3
16 Sunderland 13 2 4 7 13 22 -9 10 2
17 Middlesbrough 13 2 4 7 12 23 -11 10 2
18 Bolton Wanderers 13 1 5 7 11 18 -7 8 4
19 Wigan Athletic 13 2 2 9 10 23 -13 8 0
20 Derby County 13 1 3 9 5 31 -26 6 2
Could this have something to do with it?
2 uninspiring managers in 6 months, less than a goal a game and £20 an hr to watch it.
Off the pitch, a self centered money grabbing tugger for a chairman. A stadium thats a nightmare to get to and from. Catering that is over priced, poor quality and after a 20 min wait is served by stupidest pple on the planet.
The only reason anyone goes to the reebok at the moment is loyalty to the Wanderers!
Previous years: 2006/2007 2005/2006 2004/2005 2003/2004 Click column headers to reorder columns.
Uefa Champions League: 1st, 2nd
Uefa Champions League pre Qualifying: 3rd, 4th
Relegation: 18th, 19th, 20th
1 Arsenal 12 9 3 0 27 10 17 30 14
2 Manchester United 13 9 3 1 23 6 17 30 16
3 Manchester City 13 8 2 3 16 13 3 26 13
4 Chelsea 13 7 4 2 19 9 10 25 14
5 Liverpool 12 6 6 0 19 6 13 24 12
6 Portsmouth 13 6 5 2 23 13 10 23 14
7 Blackburn Rovers 12 6 4 2 15 11 4 22 13
8 Aston Villa 12 6 3 3 18 14 4 21 11
9 Everton 13 6 2 5 19 15 4 20 10
10 West Ham United 12 5 3 4 18 10 8 18 8
11 Newcastle United 12 5 3 4 19 18 1 18 7
12 Reading 13 4 1 8 16 29 -13 13 6
13 Fulham 13 2 6 5 16 20 -4 12 6
14 Tottenham Hotspur 13 2 5 6 23 24 -1 11 6
15 Birmingham City 13 3 2 8 13 20 -7 11 3
16 Sunderland 13 2 4 7 13 22 -9 10 2
17 Middlesbrough 13 2 4 7 12 23 -11 10 2
18 Bolton Wanderers 13 1 5 7 11 18 -7 8 4
19 Wigan Athletic 13 2 2 9 10 23 -13 8 0
20 Derby County 13 1 3 9 5 31 -26 6 2
Could this have something to do with it?
2 uninspiring managers in 6 months, less than a goal a game and £20 an hr to watch it.
Off the pitch, a self centered money grabbing tugger for a chairman. A stadium thats a nightmare to get to and from. Catering that is over priced, poor quality and after a 20 min wait is served by stupidest pple on the planet.
The only reason anyone goes to the reebok at the moment is loyalty to the Wanderers!
Chris Manning, TW says...
12:14pm Wed 14 Nov 07
I blame Hunt and Nolan as well.
Jon, Bolton says...
12:18pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Jordan wrote:Its ironic that in one breath fans will call for us "spending big" and trying to join the big boys, yet in the other, moan that our club is run as a professional business.
There are many reasons for this, which have been discussed in this forum but one thing that annoys me more than most is the way that the fans or 'customers' as the board like to call us, are treated.Completely agree... i feel like the fun has been taken out of the game because of commercialism and arrogance. The fans have been treated awfully by the club over the last 6 or so years. People might say 'well they have offered reduced tickets' etc etc, but lets face it, they've only done that because the ground isnt selling out. If the stadium was full every week, they wouldnt be offering us anything. in the 97/98 season we struggled the whole season, but we still had a crowd of 25k every week. But at that time, the demographics of the support was changing. Many of the fans that followed the whites at burnden, home and away, no longer go. In the first instance because of the price, in the second instance because we used to stand in the terraces and enjoy banter - but are no longer allowed to, and thirdly because Bolton Wanderers was a FOOTBALL CLUB. Now it is being treated as a business and we are the customers instead of fans. This is our club? You're having a laugh...
Big clubs charge big prices. Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, go see what they charge for their season tickets!
BWFC-TIL-I-DIE, BOLTON says...
12:21pm Wed 14 Nov 07
two people to blame for our down fall......
ALLARDYCE AND GARTSIDE.
LIKE IT OR NOT, THEY HAVE BOTH CONTRIBUTED MASSIVELY !!!
ALLARDYCE AND GARTSIDE.
LIKE IT OR NOT, THEY HAVE BOTH CONTRIBUTED MASSIVELY !!!
Son of Bolton Reader, Amsterdam says...
12:23pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Terracing is NOT allowed in either the Premiership or the Championship at this moment in time - so that is a no-goer.
What will help are wins by the team - but only a small fraction will return.
Another big help will the the complete reducing of prices - not just ticket pricing but th eprices of food and drink - and also a greater selection. Why can't the normal fans have a choice of lagers, bitters and snacks like they do in the boxes and suites?
Wholly reducing prices will, and does in practice, bring in greater returns than at present due to people buying more. Cheaper it is the more people will buy.
Finally - Gartside, Duckworth (a failed business family - remember even Prestons of Bolton is now owned by an out-of Bolton company due to the Duckworths putting it into adiministration) and Warburton. They have let the club down far too many times over the last 30 or so years!!! Make Reebok actually have some financial clout within the club instead of just being quiet sponsors - they should have some say in how the club is managed and run as they do put millions into the club for what?????
What will help are wins by the team - but only a small fraction will return.
Another big help will the the complete reducing of prices - not just ticket pricing but th eprices of food and drink - and also a greater selection. Why can't the normal fans have a choice of lagers, bitters and snacks like they do in the boxes and suites?
Wholly reducing prices will, and does in practice, bring in greater returns than at present due to people buying more. Cheaper it is the more people will buy.
Finally - Gartside, Duckworth (a failed business family - remember even Prestons of Bolton is now owned by an out-of Bolton company due to the Duckworths putting it into adiministration) and Warburton. They have let the club down far too many times over the last 30 or so years!!! Make Reebok actually have some financial clout within the club instead of just being quiet sponsors - they should have some say in how the club is managed and run as they do put millions into the club for what?????
BWFC-TIL-I-DIE, BOLTON says...
12:24pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Jon, Bolton ... HERE YOU GO AGAIN... DO YOU ACTUALLY READ ANY OTHER POSTS ON HERE?? THE PRICE OF A SEASON TICKET HAS NO RELEVANCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WIDER PICTURE!!!! IT IS THE WAY WE ARE TREATED, RIPPED OFF, LIED TO, FORCED TO WATCH CRAP AND SO ON.....
Den, Leigh says...
12:28pm Wed 14 Nov 07
In my view its a number of factors affecting different generations of fans/supporters: -
1. Way club views & treats its fans.
2. Lack of Ambition from the board, i.e. Expenditure & Managerial appointments
3. Quality of Football, lack of passion from players and lack of commitment
4. Poor Matchday experience, way too many nanny's/jobsworth in florescent jackets
5. Poeple feel ripped off
1. Way club views & treats its fans.
2. Lack of Ambition from the board, i.e. Expenditure & Managerial appointments
3. Quality of Football, lack of passion from players and lack of commitment
4. Poor Matchday experience, way too many nanny's/jobsworth in florescent jackets
5. Poeple feel ripped off
chris wood, Chorley says...
12:30pm Wed 14 Nov 07
The club depend on droids like AndyW who obviously have a mixed up concept of ' support 'and are there to have there wallets emptied by the in-effective board.
I will alawys be a bolton fan, when i paid a small entry fee at Burnden I found that relative to the 'sparce ' conditions and facilities. However in this new age of business where we are ' customers ' I except a reasonable service for my entrance fee, the catering at Reebok as been dismal in both service and pricing since the Reebok opened this exacerbates the real problem of the sterile non atmospheric surroundings of the Reebok policed by unpersonable cheap labour over the top stewards ( Except for when real trouble flares up and they go missing !)Its time the club ceased the concept that it is our duty to turn up and for them to get their act together. Totally agree with Yourigod.
I will alawys be a bolton fan, when i paid a small entry fee at Burnden I found that relative to the 'sparce ' conditions and facilities. However in this new age of business where we are ' customers ' I except a reasonable service for my entrance fee, the catering at Reebok as been dismal in both service and pricing since the Reebok opened this exacerbates the real problem of the sterile non atmospheric surroundings of the Reebok policed by unpersonable cheap labour over the top stewards ( Except for when real trouble flares up and they go missing !)Its time the club ceased the concept that it is our duty to turn up and for them to get their act together. Totally agree with Yourigod.
WHICKO, bolton says...
12:31pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Don't worry it's only United up next, still at least there should be a bulging crowd as well as a bulging net!
Son of Bolton Reader, Amsterdam says...
12:32pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Allardyce took Bolton to dizzy heights but it is the fall-out with Gartside (and not just Sam Allardyce but his whole family) that led to Big Sam walking out - far too many false promises from Phil'n'Eddie. Sam knew what he was doing when he went - na dhad to show the club how he really felt - sure its hurt the team and the fans but he biggest aim, i feel, was to destroy Gartside. Big Sam has now gone and that mantle should now be picked up by us fans. Destroy Gartside and the rest of the board.
Look at what they have done over the years....
The only success was Big Sam. Even the Reebok is a let down - why couldn't they call it New Burnden Park, sponsored by Reebok!!!! The new club badge is a sham - either bring back the original court of arms or just bring back the red rose at least.
Far too many false promises and too much in-house fighting has led to where we are.
Gartside, Davies, Warburton and Duckworth HAVE to go if this club is to stay in the Premiership and succeed as a top club!
Look at what they have done over the years....
The only success was Big Sam. Even the Reebok is a let down - why couldn't they call it New Burnden Park, sponsored by Reebok!!!! The new club badge is a sham - either bring back the original court of arms or just bring back the red rose at least.
Far too many false promises and too much in-house fighting has led to where we are.
Gartside, Davies, Warburton and Duckworth HAVE to go if this club is to stay in the Premiership and succeed as a top club!
birch, chorley says...
12:34pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Jon wrote:because they have massive support and could fill there grounds twice over, thats why they all have or are building grounds twice the size of ours!!!
Jordan wrote:Its ironic that in one breath fans will call for us "spending big" and trying to join the big boys, yet in the other, moan that our club is run as a professional business. Big clubs charge big prices. Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, go see what they charge for their season tickets!There are many reasons for this, which have been discussed in this forum but one thing that annoys me more than most is the way that the fans or 'customers' as the board like to call us, are treated.Completely agree... i feel like the fun has been taken out of the game because of commercialism and arrogance. The fans have been treated awfully by the club over the last 6 or so years. People might say 'well they have offered reduced tickets' etc etc, but lets face it, they've only done that because the ground isnt selling out. If the stadium was full every week, they wouldnt be offering us anything. in the 97/98 season we struggled the whole season, but we still had a crowd of 25k every week. But at that time, the demographics of the support was changing. Many of the fans that followed the whites at burnden, home and away, no longer go. In the first instance because of the price, in the second instance because we used to stand in the terraces and enjoy banter - but are no longer allowed to, and thirdly because Bolton Wanderers was a FOOTBALL CLUB. Now it is being treated as a business and we are the customers instead of fans. This is our club? You're having a laugh...
try comparing us to the 2 most similar teams in terms of size etc, wigan and blackburn, £250 a season ticket all summer long, that is because they have a board who realise the direction the game is going for the smaller clubs.
God_Man, Westhoughton says...
12:40pm Wed 14 Nov 07
After the lil' Sam debacle! You would of thought Phil Darkside would of given the job of appointing his replacement to another, but NO! Ooops he does it again! The most uninspiring appointment you could imagine!
A Championship standard manager joins half a dozen Championship players brought in this summer.
Now Gareth "Clouseau" Moores is on the case I have no doubt he will blame cold Rollover hot dogs for the fall in attendances!
A Championship standard manager joins half a dozen Championship players brought in this summer.
Now Gareth "Clouseau" Moores is on the case I have no doubt he will blame cold Rollover hot dogs for the fall in attendances!
YouriLeGod, Bolton says...
12:43pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Another reason why the whole 'match day experience' is not what it used to be.
15 years ago
Saturday - Get up, go to game at 3pm in the afternoon
2007
Saturday - Get up, find a paper to see if we are playing that day and if so what time we kick off. If not playing Saturday find what time on Sunday we might be kicking off.
Oh yes, don't forget there is the other option on a Monday night as well.
As much as I detest the lot we play next week I take my hat off to them for backing the police in turning down Setanta's request to move the game from just before christmas to 8pm Christmas Eve.
That is another thing that is killing not only Bolton but other clubs as well.
Maybe a spell in the championship wouldn't be that bad in that respect.
15 years ago
Saturday - Get up, go to game at 3pm in the afternoon
2007
Saturday - Get up, find a paper to see if we are playing that day and if so what time we kick off. If not playing Saturday find what time on Sunday we might be kicking off.
Oh yes, don't forget there is the other option on a Monday night as well.
As much as I detest the lot we play next week I take my hat off to them for backing the police in turning down Setanta's request to move the game from just before christmas to 8pm Christmas Eve.
That is another thing that is killing not only Bolton but other clubs as well.
Maybe a spell in the championship wouldn't be that bad in that respect.
Jordan, Manchester says...
12:52pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Jon wrote:where did i say that Jon you moron?
Jordan wrote:Its ironic that in one breath fans will call for us "spending big" and trying to join the big boys, yet in the other, moan that our club is run as a professional business. Big clubs charge big prices. Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, go see what they charge for their season tickets!There are many reasons for this, which have been discussed in this forum but one thing that annoys me more than most is the way that the fans or 'customers' as the board like to call us, are treated.Completely agree... i feel like the fun has been taken out of the game because of commercialism and arrogance. The fans have been treated awfully by the club over the last 6 or so years. People might say 'well they have offered reduced tickets' etc etc, but lets face it, they've only done that because the ground isnt selling out. If the stadium was full every week, they wouldnt be offering us anything. in the 97/98 season we struggled the whole season, but we still had a crowd of 25k every week. But at that time, the demographics of the support was changing. Many of the fans that followed the whites at burnden, home and away, no longer go. In the first instance because of the price, in the second instance because we used to stand in the terraces and enjoy banter - but are no longer allowed to, and thirdly because Bolton Wanderers was a FOOTBALL CLUB. Now it is being treated as a business and we are the customers instead of fans. This is our club? You're having a laugh...
Aidan, sheffield says...
12:57pm Wed 14 Nov 07
The reason for the low attendences could be that the genuine fans get sick of listening to these idiot who just want to go to games and wiat for Hunt and Nolan to mess up so they can shout rubbish.
Also all Carling cup and non-glamourous UEFA matches should be £5 each. To be honest a ticket should be no more the £15 at the best of times. By being greedy it will only every come back on the club, attendences will be down, team under-performs, home record is much poorer, Bolton have lower league finish. Its non nuclear physics.
Also all Carling cup and non-glamourous UEFA matches should be £5 each. To be honest a ticket should be no more the £15 at the best of times. By being greedy it will only every come back on the club, attendences will be down, team under-performs, home record is much poorer, Bolton have lower league finish. Its non nuclear physics.
jay, bolton says...
12:58pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Son of Bolton Reader wrote:we know terracing is NOT allowed mate but they are looking at changing the rules and allowing a terraced area at grounds. This would bring a little of the match day experiance back, ie- when a jobsworth moans at you for swearing you can slap him and dissapear into the crowd lol fking hate them idiot stewards its like trying to watch a match on double yellow lines with a traffic warden watching, wank4rs!
Terracing is NOT allowed in either the Premiership or the Championship at this moment in time - so that is a no-goer. What will help are wins by the team - but only a small fraction will return. Another big help will the the complete reducing of prices - not just ticket pricing but th eprices of food and drink - and also a greater selection. Why can't the normal fans have a choice of lagers, bitters and snacks like they do in the boxes and suites? Wholly reducing prices will, and does in practice, bring in greater returns than at present due to people buying more. Cheaper it is the more people will buy. Finally - Gartside, Duckworth (a failed business family - remember even Prestons of Bolton is now owned by an out-of Bolton company due to the Duckworths putting it into adiministration) and Warburton. They have let the club down far too many times over the last 30 or so years!!! Make Reebok actually have some financial clout within the club instead of just being quiet sponsors - they should have some say in how the club is managed and run as they do put millions into the club for what?????
Jon, Bolton says...
12:59pm Wed 14 Nov 07
BWFC-TIL-I-DIE wrote:Give some examples then.
Jon, Bolton ... HERE YOU GO AGAIN... DO YOU ACTUALLY READ ANY OTHER POSTS ON HERE?? THE PRICE OF A SEASON TICKET HAS NO RELEVANCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WIDER PICTURE!!!! IT IS THE WAY WE ARE TREATED, RIPPED OFF, LIED TO, FORCED TO WATCH CRAP AND SO ON.....
How are we treated badly as fans? Specifically to Bolton, I need examples.
How are we ripped off? Again some examples.
When have we been lied to?
Jordan, Manchester says...
1:01pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Son of Bolton Reader wrote:At Munich last week, i saw a big difference between the way that they treat their fans and the way that our fans are treated at the Reebok.
Terracing is NOT allowed in either the Premiership or the Championship at this moment in time - so that is a no-goer. What will help are wins by the team - but only a small fraction will return. Another big help will the the complete reducing of prices - not just ticket pricing but th eprices of food and drink - and also a greater selection. Why can't the normal fans have a choice of lagers, bitters and snacks like they do in the boxes and suites? Wholly reducing prices will, and does in practice, bring in greater returns than at present due to people buying more. Cheaper it is the more people will buy. Finally - Gartside, Duckworth (a failed business family - remember even Prestons of Bolton is now owned by an out-of Bolton company due to the Duckworths putting it into adiministration) and Warburton. They have let the club down far too many times over the last 30 or so years!!! Make Reebok actually have some financial clout within the club instead of just being quiet sponsors - they should have some say in how the club is managed and run as they do put millions into the club for what?????
Last year, they opened the stadium as an all seater and when the fans of the club complained because they wanted to stand up, they created a standing area for 6,000 home fans at domestic matches.
Their kiosks were also enormous compared to the littles ones we have to put up with, and also the attendants behind the kiosks knew what they were doing.
I also liked the idea of using your ticket to get into the stadium grounds, and then being able to wander around the stadium without being treated like a child.
Too many people at BWFC have created a sense of self importance - the stewards in particular - and treat every fan as guilty until proven innocent, rather than the other way round.
Den, Leigh says...
1:02pm Wed 14 Nov 07
2007
Saturday - Get up, find a paper to see if we are playing that day and if so what time we kick off. If not playing Saturday find what time on Sunday we might be kicking off.
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT Youri....
How annoying can this be? We do have a life...some of work away a few days a week, value our weekends, and cannot make monday or wed/thu night?
Also the way many clubs (us included) bow down to the TV people is embarrasing? Why not ask the fans if they want to reschedule a game to a sunday? Where does this extra money go?
Saturday - Get up, find a paper to see if we are playing that day and if so what time we kick off. If not playing Saturday find what time on Sunday we might be kicking off.
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT Youri....
How annoying can this be? We do have a life...some of work away a few days a week, value our weekends, and cannot make monday or wed/thu night?
Also the way many clubs (us included) bow down to the TV people is embarrasing? Why not ask the fans if they want to reschedule a game to a sunday? Where does this extra money go?
Jon, Bolton says...
1:10pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Jordan wrote:The kiosks I grant you at BWFC are dreadful. However, its not a Bolton thing, thats something that happens at EVERY football stadium in this country.
Son of Bolton Reader wrote: Terracing is NOT allowed in either the Premiership or the Championship at this moment in time - so that is a no-goer. What will help are wins by the team - but only a small fraction will return. Another big help will the the complete reducing of prices - not just ticket pricing but th eprices of food and drink - and also a greater selection. Why can't the normal fans have a choice of lagers, bitters and snacks like they do in the boxes and suites? Wholly reducing prices will, and does in practice, bring in greater returns than at present due to people buying more. Cheaper it is the more people will buy. Finally - Gartside, Duckworth (a failed business family - remember even Prestons of Bolton is now owned by an out-of Bolton company due to the Duckworths putting it into adiministration) and Warburton. They have let the club down far too many times over the last 30 or so years!!! Make Reebok actually have some financial clout within the club instead of just being quiet sponsors - they should have some say in how the club is managed and run as they do put millions into the club for what?????At Munich last week, i saw a big difference between the way that they treat their fans and the way that our fans are treated at the Reebok. Last year, they opened the stadium as an all seater and when the fans of the club complained because they wanted to stand up, they created a standing area for 6,000 home fans at domestic matches. Their kiosks were also enormous compared to the littles ones we have to put up with, and also the attendants behind the kiosks knew what they were doing. I also liked the idea of using your ticket to get into the stadium grounds, and then being able to wander around the stadium without being treated like a child. Too many people at BWFC have created a sense of self importance - the stewards in particular - and treat every fan as guilty until proven innocent, rather than the other way round.
As for terracing, the LAW in the UK prevents the club for having terracing, so the clubs hands are tied!
YouriLeGod, Bolton says...
1:11pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Jon wrote:Greenhalgh's Pies £1.95? Probably more than double they are in the shop.
BWFC-TIL-I-DIE wrote: Jon, Bolton ... HERE YOU GO AGAIN... DO YOU ACTUALLY READ ANY OTHER POSTS ON HERE?? THE PRICE OF A SEASON TICKET HAS NO RELEVANCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WIDER PICTURE!!!! IT IS THE WAY WE ARE TREATED, RIPPED OFF, LIED TO, FORCED TO WATCH CRAP AND SO ON.....Give some examples then. How are we treated badly as fans? Specifically to Bolton, I need examples. How are we ripped off? Again some examples. When have we been lied to?
Bottle of water £1.20. Bottle in Tesco 100 yards away 39p
Shirts in club shop £39.99. Shirts in Sports Direct or whatever its called these days £32.00?
Entertainment value at present - zip (and yes I know you take the rough with the smooth)
Ticket Prices in all football too expensive compared to most other forms of entertainment.
ding dong, deane says...
1:13pm Wed 14 Nov 07
One reason and one reason only for the fall in attendances: cost. Phil can put out as many schemes and special offers and incentives as he likes, the fact is the overall package from ticket prices to car park costs to replica shirt prices is just too expensive. A vast amount of money is flowing into the club as a result of the new TV deal and what do the fans get? 10% off season ticket prices. Its an insult. Greedy players and even greedier agents are taking all the money and what do we get in return? 18th in the Premier League. Why should someone on average or below average earnings spend a significant portion of his income on watching players earning £10,000/£20,000/£30,
000 + per week - PER WEEK!!! - and delivering the kind of performances we have seen lately.
Get a grip Phil. Think long term for once. You've got to build up the fan base, and that means charging a reasonable amount for ticket prices - with all the money in the game it should be a maximum of £10 per match. Attendances won't increase overnight even at that price, cause the fans have been shafted for years and are fed up with it, but long term it will work because football will be affordable again. The town wants to support the football club but simply cannot afford to do so. Drastic action is required and is required now, cause the fans live in the real world of £1 per litre petrol, rising mortgages and utility bills and not the money-no-object world of the players they support. Get a grip and realise that without the fans you have NOTHING!
000 + per week - PER WEEK!!! - and delivering the kind of performances we have seen lately.
Get a grip Phil. Think long term for once. You've got to build up the fan base, and that means charging a reasonable amount for ticket prices - with all the money in the game it should be a maximum of £10 per match. Attendances won't increase overnight even at that price, cause the fans have been shafted for years and are fed up with it, but long term it will work because football will be affordable again. The town wants to support the football club but simply cannot afford to do so. Drastic action is required and is required now, cause the fans live in the real world of £1 per litre petrol, rising mortgages and utility bills and not the money-no-object world of the players they support. Get a grip and realise that without the fans you have NOTHING!
BWFC-TIL-I-DIE, BOLTON says...
1:13pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Jon wrote:STEWARDS, PARKING PRICES, FOOD PRICES, MONEY AVAILABLE THEN TURNS OUT THERES NOT, KEEPING OUR BACKROOM STAFF AND THEN THEY ALL JOIN ALLARDYCE.. AND COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON..
BWFC-TIL-I-DIE wrote: Jon, Bolton ... HERE YOU GO AGAIN... DO YOU ACTUALLY READ ANY OTHER POSTS ON HERE?? THE PRICE OF A SEASON TICKET HAS NO RELEVANCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WIDER PICTURE!!!! IT IS THE WAY WE ARE TREATED, RIPPED OFF, LIED TO, FORCED TO WATCH CRAP AND SO ON.....Give some examples then. How are we treated badly as fans? Specifically to Bolton, I need examples. How are we ripped off? Again some examples. When have we been lied to?
ARE U PG'S BOTTY CHUM??
bwfcfan, Chorley says...
1:14pm Wed 14 Nov 07
Going to a match on SATURDAY at 3pm used to be about having a few hours laugh with your mates and letting all your built-up frustration from being a working drone all week out at the ref and opposing team.
But over the last 15 years it's not been about trying to keep these hard core fans from Burnden it's been about promoting families and making everything nice and happy and inviting.
So the sales pitch is now to familites. But the average family in Bolton can't afford to bring everyone so they have to watch on tv instead.
Whilst doing this, the club have alienated all the hardcore support that don't want dancers, 'I feel good' flags (when we don't), silly drummers and grab-happy stewards.
Football used to be about turning up and creating an atmosphere to scare the $hit out of the opposing players, now it's watered down and boring like the fizzy drinks on sale.
I'm still a season ticket holder but it seems people WILL rather go to the pub with their mates where they CAN have a laugh and CAN swear at the telly. OR they get people around and watch it on the TV. Which is the one single thing which is really killing our club.
Football clubs wants their cake and eat it. They want Football to be the reason why Sky keep selling boxes and then in turn paying large amounts of money fot TV rights but are then flabbergasted when people would rather get the same entertainment by sitting on their backsides in their own home.
We don't have masses of extra fans that are dying to get into the ground and all small clubs are starting to feel the effect and that's what we actually are, a small club.
The performances are shocking at home although not the main reason for the stay aways I think. We want to see a team TRY and beat the opponent. We are the HOME team. OK, against the top 4, yes we have to defend properly but that Boro match was absolutely unbelievable. Our team from 10 years ago with Super John up front would have w
But over the last 15 years it's not been about trying to keep these hard core fans from Burnden it's been about promoting families and making everything nice and happy and inviting.
So the sales pitch is now to familites. But the average family in Bolton can't afford to bring everyone so they have to watch on tv instead.
Whilst doing this, the club have alienated all the hardcore support that don't want dancers, 'I feel good' flags (when we don't), silly drummers and grab-happy stewards.
Football used to be about turning up and creating an atmosphere to scare the $hit out of the opposing players, now it's watered down and boring like the fizzy drinks on sale.
I'm still a season ticket holder but it seems people WILL rather go to the pub with their mates where they CAN have a laugh and CAN swear at the telly. OR they get people around and watch it on the TV. Which is the one single thing which is really killing our club.
Football clubs wants their cake and eat it. They want Football to be the reason why Sky keep selling boxes and then in turn paying large amounts of money fot TV rights but are then flabbergasted when people would rather get the same entertainment by sitting on their backsides in their own home.
We don't have masses of extra fans that are dying to get into the ground and all small clubs are starting to feel the effect and that's what we actually are, a small club.
The performances are shocking at home although not the main reason for the stay aways I think. We want to see a team TRY and beat the opponent. We are the HOME team. OK, against the top 4, yes we have to defend properly but that Boro match was absolutely unbelievable. Our team from 10 years ago with Super John up front would have w
Julie Moores, Bolton says...
11:10am Wed 14 Nov 07